The Weapons Of Mega Man 3: Awesome Or Awful?

[Otaku]

Mega Man 3 holds a special place in my heart because of a freak accident with a game cart- no, wait... that isn't right.

Without getting into details, Mega Man 3 one of my favorite "classic series" Mega Man games.  I don't consider it "the best" but it is up there.  Some of this is related to nostalgia but I believe it does a lot of things well.  I am not alone, but one of the regular criticisms I read is about its weapons... which I believe are collectively some of the best in the series.

Saying that is easy... proving it is not.  So let me explain.

1) Consider its place in Mega Man history.

Even if I don't think Mega Man 2 is the greatest Mega Man game ever, it is popular and well received.  Many believe it has the best (or at least some of the best) weapons, and being so early it started certain weapon "archetypes".  As such, I believe this colors people's opinions of the Mega Man 3 weapons.  Half of the Mega Man 3 weapons are "tweaks" of previous weapons.

Hard Knuckle = Crash Bomb
Shadow Blade = Metal Blade
Spark Shock = Ice Slasher
Search Snake = Bubble Lead

2) Separate the internal from the external.

Sometimes a weapon is weak because the concept was poor, but sometimes it is because the designers just failed to implement it well.  Some might argue that shouldn't matter but what about weapons that are nearly identical except for that fact?  Look at the Ice Slasher and the Spark Shock; both stop enemies in place, but the Ice Slasher usually did enough damage to destroy weaker foes, there were certain stage obstacles you could freeze (and that freezing was helpful against), and you could switch to another weapon while using it.  Only the last design choice was inherent to the Spark Shock (and incidentally changed in Mega Man III for the Game Boy).

As such, it is not accurate to condemn a weapon because the designers failed to supply you with appropriate places to use it in the game, at least for the purpose of comparing weapons versus weapons.  If we are talking about weapon implementation, making that fine distinction, very well.  Otherwise taking something often viewed as "overpowered" (the Metal Blade) would seem terrible if as many enemies were "immune" to it as some of the more infamous "bad" weapons.

3) Learning Curve

Some weapons are really easy to figure out... but some aren't.  The Top Spin was the "worst" Mega Man 3... except it isn't.  One of the reasons I began reading articles on The Mega Man Network was when they showed me (via an article and link to Youtube video) that I had just been "doing it wrong" all these years.  Controlling bad is one thing, but in this case knowing how/when to use the weapon turned it from being one of the worst weapons to at least an "average" one.  While hard to imagine, consider if someone never realized (perhaps because of very short play) that they could aim the Metal Blade by holding a direction before pressing the fire button?  If they didn't realize the Ice Slasher could freeze problem enemies/obstacles?

So with all that in play, I invite people to reevaluate the Mega Man 3 arsenal.  Here are my thoughts:

Magnet Missile: The first self-guided weapon in the series, it could be annoying if you chose to fire it when the target you wanted to hit wasn't the one closest to the line-of-fire, but overall a good weapon.

Hard Knuckle: The first weapon you could steer after firing it and without manipulating its (non-existent) return path, it also could smash obstacles found in stages.  The fact that said obstacles weren't used before the Fortress Stages is on the designers.  I think people also valued the (better implemented) Crash Bombs so much that they hold the "only-related-because-it-destroys-obstacles" Hard Knuckle to too high of a standard.

Top Spin: The first pure melee attack with a steep learning curve.  Further hurt by the areas where it is useful often having factors that discourage its use.  I literally always wanted something to hit annoying "collision" enemies with in mid-air but they usually came when you needed to be using something else (like the Rush Jet) or in Shadow Man's Stage... where I was saving Top Spin for him!

Shadow Blade: A non-broken (e.g. overpowered to "breaking" game balance) Metal Blade.  I played Mega Man 3 before Mega Man 2, so it was awesome before tasting such power. XD I still consider it a good weapon.

Spark Shock: The weakest weapon in Mega Man 3 actually does have issues, but only the inability to switch to another weapon while something has been paralyzed by the Spark Shock is an inherent flaw (and again, that was reversed in Mega Man III for the Game Boy).  I am uncertain if one should consider it internal or external that the attack that does "no damage" as the enemies immune to being paralyzed do take damage from it.  I want to see how the next Smash Bros. games handle it.

Search Snake: This is a better Bubble Lead.  The Bubble Lead is considered a pretty poor weapon in Mega Man 2, but this is where the game designers flubbed up.  A shot that travels along the ground and up walls should be great... except this game lacks the enemies that inhabit those areas or they are irritatingly immune to the Search Snake.  More fake/invisible floor segments would also have helped.

Gemini Laser: This is a hard to use but powerful weapon, a bit like the Top Spin in the "learning curve" department.  I thought it was bad myself until I saw how well skilled players could aim, and then I realized it was just me. =P

Needle Cannon: This gave us what amounted to a rapid-fire arm cannon shot, and was great.  Again, too many enemies being immune to it (as opposed to just taking low damage) plus invincibility frames make this function less well than it "should" in the games.

If we include the "helper" Items, this is the best game in the series; the Rush Marine is nearly useless but the Rush Coil is solid and the Rush Jet is the best version ever and often considered "overpowered". XD

[Aaron]

I've just noticed that the title reads "Awesome Of Awful" Is that like "so bad it's good"?

But seriously; who are these people giving "criticisms" towards MMIII weapons? I was under the impression that people were less impressed with MMV's weapon sets. Though personally, the one I'm not too crazy about is MM10's. (since some of them are nigh useless, unless you've set things *just so*)

As for MMIII, I've always thought the weapon set was alright. Perhaps not the best, but I felt tit was soild. Except perhaps, Top Spin, since it's so hard to use. Though that, at least, has the quirk of one-hit killing the final boss. (the only time, I can think of, where this happens)

[Drago]

With the exception of the Spark Shot and the Search Snake, I found a use for every weapon. My favorite weapon was the Gemini Laser or the Shadow Blade though. Sure, they weren't the Metal Blade or Atomic Fire, but they got the job done.

Believe it or not, I found that Megaman V (the GB version) had the worst weapons in my experience. I could never find a solid use for them outside of boss battles. Either them or Megaman 5 (the NES version0, though I'm leaning more towards the Star Droids in this case.

[Otaku]

Sept 18, 2013 5:27:21 GMT Aaron said:

I've just noticed that the title reads "Awesome Of Awful" Is that like "so bad it's good"?

But seriously; who are these people giving "criticisms" towards MMIII weapons? I was under the impression that people were less impressed with MMV's weapon sets. Though personally, the one I'm not too crazy about is MM10's. (since some of them are nigh useless, unless you've set things *just so*)

As for MMIII, I've always thought the weapon set was alright. Perhaps not the best, but I felt tit was soild. Except perhaps, Top Spin, since it's so hard to use. Though that, at least, has the quirk of one-hit killing the final boss. (the only time, I can think of, where this happens)

Thanks for pointing out the typo; fixed it. XP  Oh, and Drago, I think that Mega Man V's weapon set suffered because of some things I'll discuss for Mega Man 3, but mostly because it was a game where the default weapon was so good... at least by the time you had acquired most boss weapons and thus powered up the "Mega Hand".  What I thought was going to be a five minute post (at most) turned into a short essay, so I ran out of time to double check for non-spelling errors... possibly even spelling errors. ¬_¬

I was mostly talking about Mega Man 3 (NES) weapons because I have seen this more than once, and at least once in defense of another highly criticized (well, from what I can tell) weapon set (that of Mega Man 10).  As MM3 was my first, I didn't know of the awesome that was the Metal Blade or the raw power of some older weapons (even if they were gas guzzlers).  I actually began thinking about this because of Redmage1987; either in his own video or the comments section, someone made a statement to the effect of Mega Man 3 has some of the worst weapons.

I don't begrudge people their own opinions but I prefer they be substantiated when they aren't purely matters of personal taste.  This lead me to thinking about how we tend to evaluate weapon sets and I had to ask "Is that accurate?"  In many cases we give double (or more) credit to a specific aspect of a game because of the overall whole experience; not just Weapons in Mega Man, but a variety of "pieces" from a variety of game series.  I understand why we do this; in most cases the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and the combination enhances the experience, but when it comes to analyzing the pieces, I believe this is counter productive.

Mega Man 2 and 3 had some of the best controls, graphics, and music on the NES plus the idea was still relatively "fresh"; this is why I believe they stand out so well.  I am not knocking other games in the series (or the other series), but of a set of great games, those two stand out because of what they hit multiple "high points" before the series became too familiar for many to appreciate, and even though I consider some later games better, by the time of their release they were no longer one of (if not "the") top action/platformer available.  So when you go to look at one piece, you face pirates.  Wait, I think I became distracted again... when you take a specific part of a game but don't "isolate it", other areas can alter how it is perceived.

The stage music, the enemies you get to face, the tightness of the controls, the difficult, stage interaction... all of these things improve the quality of the "Weapons" in a Mega Man game, yet really aren't inherent to said game.  This is most obvious when two games share the same Weapon, whether one of those games is a re-release, a remake, or just chose to bring back/update an older Boss Weapon.

It is easier to consider a lot of cool new "tricks" we can do with Boss Weapons now, because of so many games worth of experience, but just because you don't think of something doesn't mean it isn't possible, and some things are done without even being recognized.  The Ice Slasher interacted with its environment, just in a vary limited manner; it could freeze flame jets that weren't truly enemies, even if that is how they were programmed, but a Stage hazard.  So many years down the road (especially with examples from later series), it is easy to come up with ideas for at least certain weapons how they could have "done more".

Using Mega Man 3 (you can do this with pretty much any game):

*More barriers for the Hard Knuckle to break.  Mega Man 2 already did this with Crash Bombs, and at least by the Doc Robot stage you must have the Hard Knuckle so there is no excuse for this one.  Even without the ability to replay cleared Stages, throwing some non-essential "goodies" or alternate paths behind them would still have been fine for earlier stages (if they didn't want to be "mean" and have something crucial you could miss from playing the Stages in the "wrong" order).

*Trick Shots!  Mega Man & Bass did this blatantly, but we do see it in other games.  Mega Man 3 has some great weapons to set up scenarios where you need to fire a weapon "just right" to defeat an enemy (or destroy a hypothetical barrier):

-Magnet Missiles are (to a degree) self-guided.
-Hard Knuckles have sufficient steering for this purpose.
-The Top Spin similarly strikes awkward angles/ranges as well as all around Mega Man at once.
-Shadow Blade has additional aiming capacity and I thought it returns to Mega Man.
-Search Snakes are all about this... you could have some complex maze where Mega Man needs to hit something at the center and only this weapon could make it all the way through!
-The Gemini Laser is all about reflection!
-The Needle Cannon versus a rapidly regenerating barrier!

*Environmental interaction.  Most of the Mega Man 3 weapons don't lend themselves to without changing their fundamental nature, but related to "Trick Shots" would be something as simple as making multiple kinds of barriers for different weapons to break (not all, just the ones that make sense) as well as setting up areas where weapons could logically trigger a stage effect. 
-Top Spin in front of a turbine (or the like) to get it spinning
-firing the Spark Shot into fuels to ignite flames or at a generator to jump start it
-firing a Search Snake onto a treadmill or conveyor belt to keep something moving.

Again I made suggestions that wouldn't require altering the programming or design of the attack; we aren't talking about attacks that had an obvious secondary use, like the Thunder Claw or Tornado Hold.  The above suggestions are akin to how the Scorch Wheel could burn vegetation (iirc); a matter of how the stage responded to the weapon, not how the weapon responded to anything itself.

*Enemy Interaction. Ignoring superficial (but often fun) things (like extra "death" animation for specific weapons), I am talking about things like enemies taking different damage from different weapons (which may legitimately be inherent to the weapon - I forget how it is programmed in these games) and enemy attack patterns (which is all on the enemy at this point).  Let's jump back to Mega Man 2 for a moment... if there was no enemy that didn't attack Mega Man from directly above or below (bizarre as that would be), the Metal Blade would have been a lot less important.  I think this is part of what "hurts" the Weapon set of Mega Man 3 -  a lot of enemies were just as easy to ignore or take out with "a different weapon" than played to the weapon's strengths.

It would have made the programming a bit more complex, but having "two stage/part" enemies so that you had to (or optionally could) destroy the "bounces shots off" outer casing with the Hard Knuckle would have made that weapon seem so impressive.  An enemy that was damaging to other enemies and placed strategically could have made even the Spark Shock seem good.  More enemies that could only efficiently be hit with the Top Spin, more low-lying or wall-crawling enemies for the Search Snake (that weren't invincible, easy to avoid, or just as easy to hit with another weapon...) etc.

TL;DR:  Sorry that was so long.  Fixed the typo.  Drago, I think Mega Man V's weapons weren't bad, the Mega Hand was just awesome (I believe they suffered implementation issues as per several Mega Man games).  For details see above, but I really think to honestly evaluate the individual pieces of any game, you have to look at them both in isolation and in combination with the various other elements (as per the messy thing above). ;-)

[Drago]

You do have a good point. I tend to judge weapons based on how useful they are compared to the Buster. If I can stand there and just shoot with my cannon until they're dead and that's actually better than trying to use the Robot Master Weapons (RMW), then that's what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna try to figure out how the weapons interact with my environment if I can just blast through the stage normally, why would I bother trying to use the different weapons.

MM7 and MM8 get a lot of hash, but their weapons were pretty darn useful. Even Water Balloon and Wild Coil has their uses outside of boss fights. Water Balloon destroyed fire enemies without leaving an annoying ball of flame left over and wild coil hit enemies behind you.

[Otaku]

Yup.  So the question becomes... how much of that is "inherent" and how much do we attribute to enemy design, placement, stage design, etc.?

I realize that many of these things are hard, almost artificial to separate, but at this point I believe I've often unduly "rewarded" (um... not that being praised by an otaku means much XD) some games because they had this "awesome" weapon that did "awesome" things... but but the bits and bytes of it comes down to how the enemies or the stages were programmed.  We have to paradoxically consider things both from a "video game design" standpoint and a "real life simulation" stand point, and decide which elements either belong to the "weapons" or should belong to them, and when to apply either, both, or neither.

[manwholoverockmusic]

Well to my understanding a weapon often goes down to what it does and how effective you can make it useful to your favor when handling a stage. Also Mega Man 3 is also my favorite of the classic series. Too be honest out of the weapons I like using in the game majority of the time I am buster runner through the stages ,but when I go out of my way to play the game differently I learn new things about the RMW's that I never thought possible. I have seen videos of certain RMW's being used all the time even the Top Spin which a lot people think is garbage. That weapon is a beast when put in the right hands.

[Drago]

Well, from what I've found just running through the stage with my buster, RMW's were designed to help you beat the enemies of the stages that belonged to the Robot Master weak against that weapon. This continued into the X series as well. I'll give a few examples to explain what I mean a little better.

In MM7, the Wild Coil hit enemies in front of you and behind you at the same time. Normally, you'd think "Why don't I just shoot the one in front of me, then shoot the one behind me?" Legitimate question until you enter Shade Man's stage and hop on the elevator. Zombie enemies pop up in front of you and behind you at the same time from a pretty close distance. Charging up doesn't even kill them in the first hit and rapid-fire is way too slow in that game. You're going to get hit unless you use the WC to hit both of them at the same time (or just abuse the Rush Adapter like I did).

In MM1, The Rolling Cutter is pretty much essential to beating Elec Man, but throughout the stage, there are enemies on the ground and in the air at bad angles that the RC hits easily. It wasn't as big an issue back then because it only took 3 RCs to take down Elec Man, but still.

In MMX4, pretty much every stage except Jet Stingray's does this. It's actually insane how often you'll not be using your buster. Can you use your buster through every stage and be fine? Yes, but you have to be really good at the game first. XD

[Otaku]

This is actually part of the Top Spin's historical recognition problem; perhaps the best Stage to use it is the Shadow Man Stage... but as it is tricky to control how much Energy is used and this predates W Tanks, I know I don't like to use it at all for fear I'll run out against Shadow Man.

[SpinAttaxx]

The weapons of Mega Man 3... eh, they don't really feel as special as the ones from 9. Probably because they (like most Mega Man games actually) have one that's guaranteed to be used everytime and one that will rarely, if ever, be used beyond a boss's weakness.

Needle Cannon is a neat idea, but I never find myself using it all that much.

Magnet Missile, I often use it for Nitrons and Parasyus, but otherwise the weapon cost is just too high for me to use often.

Gemini Laser, great for Hari Haris, Needle Man and Doc Quick, useless for just about every other situation (though IIRC Hammer Joes are weak to it).

Hard Knuckle I find is a great miniboss killer, even if I only ever use it on Big Snakey and whatever bosses are weak to it.

Top Spin. Boy did this get the short end of the stick. Even beyond the shonky programming giving it it's bizzare ammo usage calculation, you're not invincible while you use it, so Shadow Man (and... well, anything bigger than a minor enemy) is a huge pain in the ass to fight with it (but an even bigger one if you don't). Plus there's that slight displacement thing where killing an enemy with it punts you slightly to the left. I always feel like that'll send me down a pit someday.

Search Snake. I never use this outside of Gemini Man. Feels pretty useless honestly.

Spark Shock. Ice Slasher if you couldn't change weapons while it was active, and so therefore mostly useless.

Shadow Blade. The one weapon I use constantly. I don't think it needs explaining.

So yeah, if each weapon were like 9's weapons in that none of them feel useless or better compared to another, I'd use more weapons beyond Shadow Blade and the Mega Buster.

[Sukaruman]

Personally, I like most of MM3's weapons. The Magnet Missile is still one of my favorites of all-time. Shadow Blade isn't the overpowered mess that the Metal Blade is, so I enjoyed it even more. Needle Cannon is useful as a rapid fire weapon, though I still feel more comfortable running through stages with the Mega Buster. Gemini Laser is good but not great due to the issue of not being able to fire it more than once at a time. Spark Shock is another one of my favorites, though I agree with the comparison to the Ice Slasher. Different game though and it still felt fresh. Search Snake and Hard Knuckle I rarely use unless a situation specifically calls for one's use. As for the Top Spin, I will never understand why it drains so quickly. I think that's the issue for most anyway.

Mega Man 3 didn't have the best weapons, but it's still my favorite Mega Man game of all-time. Oddly enough, despite being one of the more difficult Mega Man games it's the first one I ever beat even though I started with the first two.

[Otaku]

I've never really understood the idea that Mega Man 3 is "hard", save for the "Doc Robot" Stages. Perhaps that is the entirety of it; a Stage with two Mega Man 2 Robot Masters is pretty daunting, especially in a game where you can't easily stock up on Energy Tanks. Granted, I also used the Controller II cheats plus passwords from others to learn the whole game at once, instead of being stuck doing one stage over and over and over again. Eventually I stopped using the cheats and now I am not sure if they'd make the game any easier as I am used to beating it "legit".

[Sukaruman]

I suggest giving the third game a try again clean. I never used cheats or passwords to beat the games. I liked to sit and play them until I either beat them, got bored, or too frustrated. If I hadn't beaten the one I was playing, I'd start over from the beginning another time. It's weird when I think about it now, but that's just how I played. MM3 was so long in comparison to the first two, so it took hours to get through the first time I beat it. MM3 is pretty tough IMO, but it isn't the toughest. I still think the first one is by far.

[VileMKII]

Before 9, Megaman 3 was my favorite classic title. But it was only for the stage design and bosses, not so much the weapons. 9 overall is my favorite. I think it has the best weapons, the most fun stages, the coolest bosses, and I like the story. Its all legit in my book. Before that though, I honestly say MMX had the best. Flame wave, Storm Tornado, Homing Torpedo, Shotgun Ice, just to name a few of the better ones. ANd no, that is not with the charged versions. I just found ways to abuse those.

[Otaku]

Sept 7, 2014 2:02:31 GMT Sukaruman said:

I suggest giving the third game a try again clean.  I never used cheats or passwords to beat the games. I liked to sit and play them until I either beat them, got bored, or too frustrated. If I hadn't beaten the one I was playing, I'd start over from the beginning another time. It's weird when I think about it now, but that's just how I played. MM3 was so long in comparison to the first two, so it took hours to get through the first time I beat it. MM3 is pretty tough IMO, but it isn't the toughest. I still think the first one is by far.

Re-reading my previous post, I can see why you think I never did that... but I did.  Repeatedly.  Over many years.  Since I had to sell off all my games (financial + personal issues), I cannot go back and play it again, at least anytime soon.  I am sorry I worded things so poorly before; again re-reading to evaluate, even I think it now sounds like I never did ("learned" is the only indicator otherwise).  >_<

While Mega Man 3 is a long title, unlike say the various "double fortress" entries you get multiple passwords.  The Wily Stages are overall pretty short and easy as well.  Years after I had beaten it multiple times (including without the Controller II cheats) I found out I was still doing certain things the "hard" way (plus the whole Topspin thing).  Still, having been unable to play the two most recent games at all as well as having played most titles far less than Mega Man 3, I do realize I am biased.  I think I find the original the hardest of the "boss rush" towards the end, where you have to beat multiple Robot Masters plus Wiley (in two forms) to win; even with that spiffy "Only Appears Here!" power-up, that is just brutal.  I seem to recall having a terrible time with one of Wily's forms in Mega Man 7 and as for Mega Man 8, besides being a lousy shot with the Rock Ball... well... "Jump! Jump! Slide! Slide!".

Perhaps we should spin off a discussion of the various games and how difficult they are relative to each other.  Like Weapons, there are a lot of factors that can skew things.  "It was easy apart fom [insert factor]." is a pretty common theme.

VileMKII

Sorry, having issues with multi-quoting so I'll just ask: want to go into more specifics?  As you noticed earlier on, I am all about a detailed discussion for this, because I think a lot of weapons get more credit than they deserve because of overall game design (as opposed to specific weapon design).  My go to example is the Metal Blade... how lame would it have been if most of the enemies in the game were immune to it... or at least the one's that could only easily be hit by it.  That happens to far too many weapons over the life of the series, often leaving me wondering "Why?".